Punisher:

What are your feelings about the fact that God is acknowledged in every single one of the State Constitutions in the country.

That every session of Congress and Senate are started with prayer to God.

That every single President has been sworn in on a Bible.

That the 10 Commandments are on several Federal buildings in Washington DC right in the infrastructure.

That the Creator is spoken about in the Declaration of Independence.

Does that make you uncomfortable too?

Im not trying to be smart here, or unfriendly Punisher, but do realize that the heritage of America has been Christian based, even in government. It has only been in my short lifetime that the drift towards secularism has accelerated. The Constitution Party is merely in line with the historic stance of our country.

Your Friend,
Bill Lussenheide
http://www.FaithFamilyFreedoms.blogspot.com

As I said, I have no problem with the Constitution Party mentioning God in the party platform. Neither do I have a problem with God being mentioned in legal documents.

I have no problem with this either.

I have a problem with this only if it is codified that the Bible must be used, and nothing may take its place at the elect of the one being sworn in.

Many people who believe in God do not believe that the Bible is the word of God or the foundation of moral law.

I have no problem with this, because adorning a public building with the Ten Commandments is not an explicit endorsement of the Ten Commandments.

I think that's great. I'm a deist.

No.

That's fine, and if you want a Christian-only political party, then by all means the Constitution Party should retain the mention of Jesus Christ and the Bible in their party platform.

Just be aware that by doing so, you alienate all non-Christians from your party. Few non-Christians will be willing to join a party whose platform says that Jesus Christ is the savior and that the Bible is the foundation of moral law, because by joining a party, you are more or less endorsing its platform.

Again, if that's what you want, then you shouldn't change your platform.

This post was last modified: Sun Sep 21, 2008 06:52 PM by Punisher.

I like the platform as it stands.... I dont think it needs to revised....

Punisher,

I am/was a strong Huckabee supporter and was very active in the grassroots campaign. I helped run the Hucksarmy forums.

I am so disappointed with the GOP and just recently found the Constitution Party. I am a Christian.

I very much understand your question and think it is a fair one. However, at this point I don't think that they should change the platform. They could maybe clarify it more so that non-Christians are very very much welcomed to be apart of the effort. However I believe that being anchored in Christ has a positive effect on all society. Being anchored in Christ promotes, integrity, responsibility, love, justice,,,, all of which I know you hold important. These principles are good for Christians and non-Christians.

The reason why I say that they shouldn't change it now is that it is very easy to go in one direction when it comes to talking about Jesus Christ in public and not the other way. Basically, as the constitution party gets larger, they will likely not be so strong on talking about Jesus Christ in their platform. I don't necessarily want that to happen but I recognize that that is likely. So I would rather them hold on to this as long as possible so that we start with a good principled foundation.

This is similar to how our nation was born. Many were Christians who came over here and created a foundation for our nation. Most people in our country now are not Christians but the foundation was a good one to give us a long history of a solid nation. I hope the same will be true for the constitution party.

Punisher - Thank you for your honesty and your thoughtful posts.

Welcome aboard, Trox. You and I have in common that we are disappointed with the R Party. The D's and the R's have become of one heart and one mind. I am glad that you are here and hopefully here to stay. I agree with many of the points that you made in your post. As I look to compare and contrast with the D's, many Christians will vote for the D's this November despite the D's bowing to the god of Secular Humanism. They probably do not have that god in their platform , but their voting record is the fruit on the tree that indicates just that. Christ Himself made a statement about being ashamed before men of Him and I used to have that verse memorized. I have since forgotten the exact words, but remember the lesson. As the party size increases, no one will read verbatim the exact words of the platform. We have an electorate that doesn't read much anyway, or else they would not be accepting of either of the Senators for prez, but I digress. I have never read the D or R platforms but know who is upholding the constitution based on how they vote. [To date there are about 8 Representatives and 0 Senators.] The CP wil establish a good voting record when a significant number of them enter the State Houses and US House. Based on their track record, people will join the CP because the elected candidates from the CP will uphold the Constitution. Back to the platform, when my wife and I read it, we thought it was too good to be true. Many others probably agree.

I'm a Christian, but I believe the platform should be changed to be more inclusive in language. That does not mean we should compromise on principle. There is a difference between promoting Christian principles (every religion worth its salt has the same or very simular principles) and promoting Christian theology. The latter should not be done in a political platform.

That being said, this is a job for the next national convention. Nothing can be done about it today. Also, though it limits our appeal, I will not fight over this if it would split the Party.

O.W.

i believe what the founding father's said...it used to be said that it is "safe", to talk about anything but religion and politics. now days, it seems that anything goes so long as the name of Jesus Christ and the Bible are not mentioned. Why has this country, when the founders clearly stated that it was on the gospel of Jesus Christ that this country was founded on, turned it's back on so rich a heritage? i tremble with Jefferson. for we are seeing the repercussions of it everyday.

Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Patrick Henry:"Orator of the Revolution."
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.

“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

Jedediah Morse:
"To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them."

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

...lots more...
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm

This post was last modified: Wed Sep 24, 2008 06:09 AM by christopher X.

"Founding Fathers Misquoted by Christian Zealots"

Punisher - In your research, which quotes from "christopher X" were misquoted? If I had more time I would research this. The founding fathers talked a lot about God and Jesus. The puritans were before many of the founding fathers who started this nation and more of them were Christians.

I agree that sometimes the founding fathers are misquoted by Christians, atheists, and deists. They were not all Christians by any means. Many of them believed in morality and religion rather than Christ the Savior.

Anyways, I could ramble. It would be good to get clarifications on these quotes here.

This post was last modified: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:00 AM by Trox.

"Religious conservatism in the United States does not mean sacrifice of individual interest, or subservience of the individual to the state or any other ruling collectivity. Rather, religion mitigates the selfishness of unbridled individualism and private animosities, while shoring-up free institutions that engage aspiring hopes as against general despotism which gives rise to indifference."

Scott Atran writing about Alexis de Tocqueville

Religion needs to stay in our platform, it just needs to be worded so as to be more inclusive of those who agree with us on moral issues.

O.W.